Simply put, Thanos wins.
He wins, then he wins. Throw a party or something.
He loses, then he gets to be with Death. Don't tell Deadpool.
1 year agoDudebladeX
Seriously, don’t use the research team as your poster-boys to argue a Death Battle verdict.
This is Ultraguy. He’s part of the research team, and he believes that using him, and his fellow research team’s verdicts as ‘proof’ that DB got a fight wrong, is (In his own words) “FLAWED and DOWNRIGHT STUPID.”
He’s a bit of a friend of mine, considering how unhostile he is, and the fact that he responds to my questions rather quickly.
If you’re wondering as to what his first sentence is talking about, it’s about this. He was rather polite about how he handled himself, and only got hostile when talking about other people that I could easily mention, but won’t because, I feel, that as a critic who is trying to tear apart misconceptions about Death Battle, that mentioning specific people in a negative way is unprofessional, and stoops to the level of a troll. To be honest, I told myself that in ANY Death Battle, I’d try and come up with a plausable argument for the other side that might give them the edge in a fight.
Now, all I’m saying, is that instead of constantly using the research team to criticize a fight, that maybe you use your own fucking research or opinions to critique them. As an example, I will use the most recent controversial fight so far: Bowser vs. Ganon. Now, while I DO agree with the verdict to a degree, I do wish that the reasoning would have been left at “Superior magic and intellect.” Something that people seem to have forgotten, is that Dry Bowser was indeed dead in that cutscene they showed. It took Bowser’s kid to actually revive him. As for Ganon’s durability, I’d appreciate it if people would stop referring to the oracle games as the answer to Ganon’s durability. It’s pretty fucking old. Almost as old as the “Monty is punishing Ben and Chad from beyond the grave.” Tripe I’ve been hearing about one of the other controversial fights that have shown up.
Now then, the idea of "Ben and Chad should be replaced by the research team."
Go ahead. Go right ahead and get all of these guys together, get a few dozen animators, a few dozen voice actors, and put on a show. If it's so easy, that you can claim this as if you can do it on your own, then go ahead. Pay for the travel fees to get them together. Go right a-fucking-head
Either way, I’m pretty sure the research team are pretty fucking tired of being your posterboys for your arguments.
1 year agoDudebladeX
Okay guys, I have a legitimate question here:
Why do people always assume that Power equals automatic victory? Last time I checked, in a fight, durability, speed, intelligence, battlefield control, versatility, and personal abilities are what lead to a victory. Not power alone.
Now, for those of you who don’t know (As unlikely as that is), Screwattack has released their season 3 premiere of Death Battle. Dante vs Bayonetta. And despite what the research team said, Bayonetta lost. Now people are giving Ben and Chad a bunch of bullshit about how Bayonetta should have won and all that.
For the record: Neither the research team, nor Ben and Chad claimed that Dante’s Quicksilver is superior to Bayonetta’s Witch Time. Ben and Chad only ruled that they match each other. Nothing more, nothing less.
I’m serious, when did power mean an automatic win? It sounds like you’re saying what they said about Goku vs. Superman is 100% undoubtedly true.
Alright with that out of the way, let’s start killing the claims of Power = Automatic Victory.
Alright, let’s see here, what to use what to use.
This iconic image. The one where Spidey defeats Juggernaut after being tossed around a city for about a few in-universe hours. Is Spidey as strong as Juggy? I doubt it. But through a combination of wits, ingenuity, and some good ol’ determination, Spider-Man came out on top.
Power equals automatic victory?
Oh, wait, you actually believe that?
Sigh, this is gonna be a long post.
Okay, what’s another example I could use here…?
The time Spider-Man kicked the crap out of one of Galactus’ heralds! Uh doy! How could I forget? (I’m smirking right now, if you can’t tell.)
Now, you remember this iconic image?
Now, I know what you’re thinking: “HA! Take that, fanboy! You just stabbed yourself in the foot with that! SEE Power DOES mean victory!” (If you aren’t thinking that, then I bet you’re thinking something similar (And if you aren’t thinking that, then thank you.)) Well, how about this:
For those of you still clinging onto your ‘Power = Automatic victory’ notion, first I’d like to commend your stubbornness and determination, and second…
(Wow, the Wall-Crawler is like the posterboy for this argument.)
The time Spidey went up against the FF and WON (Okay, he didn’t win, but he was strong enough to force a ceasefire). Keep in mind that this is basically issue #2. Before Spider-Man fought the likes of Green Goblin, Sandman, Doc Ock, or Venom. He MATCHED the people who were well-known heroes, took on the likes of Doctor Doom, and came out on top; would fight Galactus, and not only survive, but win!
But, let’s get into other things. Let’s take a Death Battle example. (For you who still hold onto your ‘Power means Victory’ ideal, I have an evil smirk on my face right now.)
Ahem, Let’s let that be true for EVERY Death Battle that has happened. Starscream would have beaten Rainbow Dash, Cloud would have beaten Link, Cap would’ve beaten Batman, Tigerzord would have claimed victory over Zechs, Nightmare would have beaten Guts, Tifa would have annihilated Yang (Yes, I admit it.) and Bayonetta would have beaten Dante.
Reiteration: You claims of Power equating to automatic victory not only mean that characters like Dash and Guts should lose, but also seems to claim that, ‘no matter how fast, smart, durable, or skilled you are, if your opponent is stronger than you, you will lose.’ If that were the case, then Link should have lost every single battle he’s been in, and Guts should have died a long time ago. Not to mention, this means that Spider-Man shouldn’t have been able to beat Juggernaut and Firelord (Y'know, the fights I have scans of Spider-Man emerging victorious?")
Power isn’t everything. Dante won because he’s insanely durable, same reason is why Yang won, strategy is why Link won, speed is why Dashie won, and durability is why Guts won.
If Spider-Man wasn’t the posterboy for the ‘Power isn’t everything’ Trope, then it would be Guts. I mean, the primary reason he beat Batman in Death Battle was because of Spider-Sense!
Shut up about your ‘power means victory’ tripe. It’s getting annoying.
1 year agoDudebladeX
So, after sifting through the internet again, and seeing even more rants on why Tifa should have ripped Yang’s heart out (Actual quote from some asshole I’m not going to bother to find out their name), I decided to do this.
Gameplay feats. Or, more specifically, gameplay mechanics.
The link below is a TvTropes page detailing the varying reasons why Gameplay and Story things are actually two separate things… Most of the time.
For this one, I’ll be doing a little thing where at the end of the blog, I’ll be keeping score of how and when gameplay feats should be used, and why. There are going to be two direct answers: “Yes, they are canon to the story, and should be used as often as possible” and “No, they’re not canon to the story at all, and should be avoided”. Now, I’ll be placing my further thoughts about it after the totalling, but the important thing is to realize that this is to debunk several theories about gameplay feats/mechanics. Additionally, I will also be tackling different game genres to solidify everything.
Alright, alright, I’ll play ball here. Like I said at the end of my Power Scaling post, you use one extreme, you have to use the other. If Tifa tanking a supernova is canon, then Tifa being KOd by a Trickplay is also canon. Now, you may be compelled to argue that Tifa shouldn’t be beaten by a squirrel, and you’re right. BUT! This also means that Tifa realistically shouldn’t tank that supernova attack. This is a classic example of segregation. And if this is the reason the vswiki classified Tifa as a ‘Solar System Buster’, then I could use the same logic in claiming that my LV 13 Geodude is a god buster because it can survive Arceus’ Judgment attack.
Another one, is Aerith’s death. Normally, in gameplay, should a party member fall in battle, you use a phoenix down. But if it’s that easy, then why couldn’t they use one on Aerith, or alternatively, some kind of healing item? The fact that the rest of the story is reliant on her influence from the afterlife notwithstanding, this is a classic case of PIS, or ‘Plot-Induced-Stupidity’.
RPG characters are known for surviving ridiculous things during gameplay, but outside of gameplay? - Are you telling me that Aerith can survive multiple gunshot wounds, energy blasts, missiles, and all that other crap, but can’t survive a simple stab wound? What the hell? Where was all that superhuman durability then?
I’ll be nice here, and only count the above as one example here.
There’s a reason I’m picking on Final Fantasy. It’s because, much like Dragonball, their fans get pissed if their character loses in DEATH BATTLE. However, because Dragonball doesn’t originate from a video game, I have to only pick on video games here, and avoid any other genres.
There are plenty of other gameplay feats I could debunk, but the one I’ll chose for this round is from Street Fighter. Akuma’s Raging Demon is a family-friendly translation of Shun Goku Satsu, which literally translates into “Flash Prison Murder.” I have yet to see Akuma actually KILL a person while in a fight in gameplay, so this is easily debunked.
Ryu’s shoryuken ripped Sagat’s chest open. He’s since gotten better at controlling his power so it doesn’t happen again, but when using Evil Ryu (Who has no moral restrictions), chests still remain intact.
Now, let’s tackle Dan Hibiki. He’s considered In-Universe, and in official guides and stuff like that, to be the absolute WORST fighter in the roster. However, a skilled enough player can turn this pathetic Ryu wannabe into a deadly force to be reckoned with. What does this mean? Well, it means that only if Dan has influence from a player, he is an actual threat.
So, even in a fighting game, the characters and moves aren’t safe from this dreaded trope.
In some other games, the opponent will be actively trying to NOT hurt you due to some outside reason or whatever.
Let’s take an example from MK9. In Liu Kang’s chapter, he fights Kitana. Kitana has every intent to kill Liu Kang, but Liu isn’t as lethal as his foe. Despite this, the player can still break Kitana’s skull via an X-Ray move, or try to light the princess on fire via his fireball attack. Of course, that is a player choice, and you can be as lethal as you want. But let’s take an example from Jax’s chapter later in the game, at some point, Johnny Cage accidentally goads him into a fight. It’s clear that Johnny isn’t interested in a fight, but he still partakes in the brief kombat itself, and will even go as far as to try and break Jax’s balls via his X-Ray move. Be it by AI, or player influence, the story still segregate itself from the gameplay.
Okay, so a lot of platformers are famous for the power-up. Be it the Fire Flower from Mario, to the Bubble Shield from Sonic. These power-ups are what let the character perform the superhuman feat to begin with. Mario isn’t invincible without the Invincibility Star, and Sonic isn’t invincible without the Super Sonic form. Hell, even Mega Man succumbs to this, Rock’s only weapon could be the Mega Buster, and you could go through the rest of the game without using any other power-up; or alternatively, you could use only one other power-up after obtaining it (CoughcoughMetalBlade).
If finishing all bosses is a requirement to get to the end, then it is allowed to be considered ‘canon’. Optional things in a platformer are things that are just that. OPTIONAL. You can’t just claim that Mario is good at guessing things because of all those Toad houses. When something is required to finish the level, then it is considered ‘canon’ unless it’s in a side quest, or some other such non-required level.
Yes: 0 (still).
No: 3 (Wow, that one is kicking butt!).
Let’s get back to RPGs for a bit here to explain why fights in the fight sequences are placed under a different scrutiny than other feats.
First up: The Limit Break multipliers on Tifa’s Limit breaks. These are a mechanic in the gameplay. The game guide claims Tifa’s Final Heaven to be on par with a nuclear explosion, which is easily an outlier. There’s no proof of Tifa being able to punch explosions (If she did, then there would be detrimental effects to the planet, which she strives to protect). If Dolphin Blow is something on par with Meteordive, then why does the Dolphin Blow deal more damage than Meteordive? Clearly, a dolphin doesn’t come close to an explosion.
Second up: In ‘Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door’ (Yeah, try saying that five times fast.), Doopliss is allowed to remain with one hit point during chapter 4. This is so that he can copy your appearance. To reiterate, your power bounce, or whatever gets interrupted so the story can progress. There’s no evidence that Doopliss can force a combo to end with some power of his, but it is integral to the plot (And I will openly admit to loving to use Vivian in the game).
Third up: Pokemon. Specifically the Mystery Dungeon series. Celebi joins your party, but can only use her time powers to help you travel short distances. Where the hell was that when the party encountered a monster house?
Yes: still 0.
No: making a killing with a score of 4.
The few times when it can apply.
Then there’s the few times that the gameplay matches the story. Like this example from Final Fantasy VII (Yes, I am using this as an example), Rude of the Turks confesses to his partner (and the player, and the party hiding nearby) that he has a crush on Tifa, one of the heroes. In fights against the Turks, Rude will never attack Tifa, and if she is the only one standing, he'll give up and walk away. (Yes, I copy and pasted that excerpt from here).
Then there’s the point in Explorers of Time/Darkness/Sky when you get the Manaphy egg, it’ll stay with you unless you go exploring. A rather nice way of keeping the little guy safe if you ask me.
Then there’s the fact that Dan Hibiki is a weak fighter. This is reflected in his throw animation where he struggles to toss a person over his shoulder. His attacks are pathetic as well, also reflecting his status as a weak character.
The core concept of a Beat-em up game is to, well, beat people (Or monsters) up. Character selection is something that is difficult to consider, as that is heavily influenced by the player. We want to judge these characters on their own. But, considering that these types of games typically don’t have any cutscenes to utilize, so gameplay is the only thing that can be used. Plus, there's typically no story to actually go off of, so... There's that.
Point for both, I guess.
Stuff like Zelda are games where you are in full control of the character in question, so how do you determine what’s canon, and what isn’t? - Easy, we follow the same rules as ‘Platformers’ above. If it’s a side quest, then it can’t count.
The score dictates that we shouldn’t use gameplay mechanics/feats to judge a character’s abilities or strength level in DEATH BATTLE.
Further explanation: We have to place gameplay feats under a VERY strict scrutiny, due to the mechanics of it causing a lot of problems. Using gameplay feats leads to cherry-picking things that are in scripted events, and ignoring anything else. Like I said, claiming the Supernova survival feat that so many Tifa fans are pointing to as proof of her durability, opens the floor for someone else to counter with Tifa losing to a freaking squirrel. You gotta find a middle ground for something like strength, speed and durability; if there’s no available evidence in a cutscene, or other non-video game source, then you can rely on a gameplay mechanic. But be careful as to which feat you use, because people can easily rebuttal the claim with something else. There are times and places for applying gameplay feats, and you just have to figure out the time and place. The big stuff can’t be used unless there’s some other non-gameplay event that can support it. They're easy to manipulate to give one character the win over another.
1 year agoDudebladeX
You remember the good ol’ days when Death Battle was just a little web-series that answered various vs questions for the fun of it? When they had evidence backing their claims, and most people pretty much said, “Yeah, that makes sense.”, When people didn’t nitpick about little details like ‘X’s feat of Y was overblown’?
- Yeah, me neither.
As far as I can tell, this started (or at least became more prevalent) around the time Mario lost to Sonic. People were furious that the mustachioed man himself, was beaten by the blue blur. Before then, people had always said that “The Death Battle team are Nintendo fanboys.” (Considering that Samus and Yoshi defeated their respective opponents, this held some water). Immediately after the fight, people started claiming that “The Death Battle team are Sega fanboys.”
That’s no hyperbole, that actually happened. People started using Death Battle to settle debates on the internet. People also used similar accusations for as to why Starscream lost to Rainbow Dash, why Batman lost to Spidey, and why Cloud lost to Link.
In addition, ever since the show itself gained precedence, people had constantly requested for Goku vs. Superman. When they delivered, and provided solid feats, facts, and evidence as to why Goku would lose (Uh, spoilers?), people demanded they ‘get it right’ and have ‘the proper person win’.
People were ungrateful that these guys put on a show, allowed their fans to watch it for FREE (Unless you were impatient and got the advantage program so you could view it early), and produced solid facts as to why Superman would emerge victorious over Goku.
Sometimes, they make mistakes, such as in Gaara vs. Toph, Ivy vs. Orchid, and Peach vs. Zelda. some people overlooked the mistakes by pointing out certain things (like how there’s no evidence that Gaara kept the gold dust in his gourd, so Toph bending it is still applicable; or how Orchid’s win-loss record is superior to Ivy’s spotty record; and how there’s no evidence to support the claim that the Mario brand sports games are non-canon.).
Are they not human? - Yes, I will acknowledge that as humans, we should own up to our mistakes. But to me, these guys CAN’T. To put it simply, if they admit they made a mistake, and go back to correct it, then people are going to be PISSED. They’ll start demanding alternate outcomes for all the other fights as well, and then Screwattack is wasting time and money on redoing fights for the sole purpose of appeasing the angry fans. This isn’t to say that they SHOULDN’T, but it’s a MUCH more rational explanation than ‘They’re arrogant, and don’t wanna be proven wrong.’
Death Battle isn’t interested in pitting two fighters on equal strength against one another (Otherwise Goku wouldn’t have fought Superman), They’re interested in putting what they represent against one another.
To put it simply, (Barring the pop star fight (Bieber vs Black)) All fighters have a chance at winning. They all have above a 0% chance of victory. That’s not an ‘equal or greater than’, that is a straight up ‘above 0’. That isn’t to say the chance is equal, but there is a chance.
As an example, during the Batman vs. Spider-Man fight, they admit that Spidey’s strength and speed wouldn’t be anything new to the dark knight, and he would likely be able to deal with it, as he dealt with opponents who had similar stats, but that the Spider-Sense tips the fight in Spider-Man’s favor.
Another example is the Link vs. Cloud fight. They call it an even match, but Link’s superior strategic mind is what led him to victory (Literally! The Triforce of courage actually tells Link how to win, even if there’s only one possible way of doing so.) Remember the old saying, “Brains over Brawn.”
In Deadpool vs. Deathstroke, the fight is relatively even for a while. But the fact that Deadpool’s healing factor can make him regen from a sliced off hand, gives him a significant edge (The fact that he can cheat with his continuity stone, magic satchel, and carbonadium sword also helps.).
The Pokemon Battle Royale is a VERY solid fight that backs up the chance at victory thing. Simply put, Blastoise has the highest chance of victory, then Charizard gets the silver medal, then Venusaur takes third. All Pokemon had a chance of victory, but they went with Blastoise because the turtle tank had the highest chance of victory.
To the best of my knowledge, there are only TWO fights that have blatant bias written all over it. These fights would be Bieber vs. Black, and the far more entertaining (And infinitely more badass) Chuck Norris vs. Segata Sanshiro. Other than those two, there has yet to be any other fight that is blatantly biased in any way.
Before the Tifa fans start pointing to a certain fight in particular, keep in mind that these fights are planned out well in advance. The animation might not be planned that far in advance, but the fight script certainly is. This is to say that Tifa did not lose to Yang as a present from Screwattack to Rooster Teeth, but she lost because of the various stats that were presented.
Screwattack (Or, rather Death Battle in particular) just so happens to friggin’ SUCK at timing.
Think about it: After Goku vs. Superman, Battle of Gods was announced; after Yang vs. Tifa, Season three came out, Screwattack became a Rooster Teeth brand, and episode 11 of season three was released; after Gaara vs. Toph, Gaara gained lightning abilities, as well as magnetic abilities; and finally, after Goku vs. Superman 2, Dragonball Super was announced, and subsequently released.
This has been dudebladeX, and I don’t really want to have to deal with anymore of this kind of shit. Also, I don't own any of the images.
1 year agoDudebladeX
I have a question, and I want it to be answered (Wow, one of my blog posts starting with a question, shocker, I know)..
Maybe this has something to do with the fact that Yang was Monty’s creation, and the Death Battle crew were friends with him, so people screamed ‘bias’ a lot, but still.
Is that really the ONLY difference between the two fights? Personally knowing one of the creators?
If that’s the case, then it feels like there’s a lot of hypocrites in the fanbase.
They personally know most of the guys at FUNimation, but, according to the fans, ‘Screwattack Hates Anime.’
Wah wah. I’m going to name the fighters from Anime/Manga who won, then I’ll list the ones that lost.
Winners: Vegeta, Zechs, Guts, Hercule, Astro Boy, Tai.
Losers: Goku, Buu, Gaara, and I guess Pikachu.
For those of you too lazy to do the math, that’s a 6:4 ratio, 6:5 if you count the rematch.
So, seriously: Where are you getting your ‘facts’ that they hate anime? The Win:Loss record is pretty even in regards of anime characters winning. - Hell, Anime has an edge up by at least one point, so I’m pretty sure that they don’t hate anime. Hell, that’s ten Anime/Manga fighters total as of Pokemon vs. Digimon, only outnumbered by Video Game characters.
I’m still a little irritated by the accusations floating about. Y’know, the ones saying “Ben and Chad are retarded for not listening to the research team.”, or “Ben and Chad should just admit that they’re biased already.”, and “These guys have no idea what should’ve happened, are they stupid or something?”
Seriously? There’s a rumor floating around that Death Battle will end after Season three, and there’s probably going to be a lot of fights that are left unanswered. Do you really want that? Do you really want to end a debate show that’s doing its best to answer the versus debates that float around?
Y’know, I was thinking about toning down my ‘Humans are a bunch of pricks’ philosophy, but this sort of attitude is making it really difficult to do that.
Maybe Bowser should’ve won, but maybe not. Point is, is that I personally feel that Ganon’s superior magic and intellect were the real deciding factors, not the really stupidly explained ‘Holy Weapons LOL.’
It shouldn’t have been THAT hard to say that Intelligence and Magic were what clenched Ganon the win. But, no. We get ‘Holy weapons.’
Speaking of, I’d like to point out that just because the Biggoron sword can hurt Ganon in gameplay, doesn’t mean it can actually kill him. In the game, you have to use the Master Sword to put Ganon down for good.
It’s sorta like… “Water beats Fire.” Yeah, water is super effective on fire, but that doesn’t automatically mean that water is the only thing that can beat fire. It’s just much more easier to beat fire with water.
If anyone from the research team is reading this, I just want to apologize for the attitude on all parties. The fans (For yelling at the hosts), The hosts (For occasionally ignoring your calls), and me (For doing this sort of stuff in the first place). But, I just want to say that it would be nice to see a call being made that isn’t based on power alone (I already have a LOT of unresolved issues with that to begin with, so it would be nice to see)
In any case, This has been DudebladeX, and I'll see you on the next Tearing apart an accusation (Assuming that the rage doesn't die down). See you guys then.
EDIT: Okay, I was informed that the research team had a majority vote on Raiden, not Wolverine. Apparently something went wrong, and the other predictions wre cut off.
1 year agoDudebladeX
Why power-scaling is bullshit (REVISED).
Hello, My name is dudebladeX, and I’m here to educate you on the reasons as to why power scaling is bullshit. Considering that this website has the web-series DEATH BATTLE, this is probably something that needs to be said. For those of you who think Power-Scaling is a totally justifiable means of scaling power this is my rebuttal.
Listed below are the sources that help define the definition of power scaling.
As power scaling is relative to the method of ‘Transitive Reason’, I will be using similar definitions to further explain as to why using it to scale power levels of characters in fiction is, as the title says, ‘bullshit’.
I have reduced power scaling to five different categories:
1: The ABC formula dictates that if character A has defeated character B, and character B has defeated character C, then character A can defeat character C. The reason that this is bullshit, is rather simple. Rock-Paper-Scissors. Using the ABC formula, this dictates that because paper defeats rock, and rock defeats scissors, then paper should defeat scissors because it defeats the thing that defeats it.
Yes. clearly paper SHOULD defeat scissors.
Not very logical is it? The same applies to video games, Western Animation, Anime & Manga, as well as a bunch of other things. Example: Spider-Man defeats Iron Man, Iron Man defeats Captain America, Captain America defeated Spider-Man (Most of this happened during Marvel’sCivil War comics by the way). This is how it works, logically, Spider-Man has superior strength, speed, durability, powers, intelligence, and agility. Spider-Man, however, is a HUGE Cap fanboy, and went easy on him. But, does this mean the ABC formula applies? -No. No it does not.
A better example is that Trunks (who defeated Cyborg-Freeza) got beaten by Cell. Does this mean that Cell is a planet buster? - Well, the only planet he blew up was King Kai’s, and we don’t know how much it takes to blow that one up, and his claims can easily be an exaggeration.
This isn’t an unreasonable method, as it is a viable number scaling method in a math class. But in a different scenario, like say, DEATH BATTLE, it is an unreliable
method of finding out a character’s level of power.
Also keep in mind that matching someone in combat, doesn't equate to having the same power level as them. I could match Haggar in a fight, if I were to dodge and avoid his attacks as they came in, but it doesn't mean that I have the same power as him. I just know how to avoid attacks. Similar to Spider-Man, he can fight the ENTIRE Fantastic Four to a standstill, using the powerscaling logic that is the ABC formula, this means that FF>Galactus, Spider-Man=FF, which ultimately concludes to Spider-Man>Galactus.
2: The ability scale formula dictates that if character A, who is able to do ability 1; and character B, who would be able to do ability 2; were to fight, and ‘A’ were to beat ‘B’, then character A has the ability to perform feat/ability 2. Pokemon is an easy example of the counter to this, as if Blastoise were to defeat Charizard, then the ability scale formula would dictate that Blastoise can use flamethrower. I looked it up, through breeding, tutoring, TMs, or other non-hack methods, Blastoise NEVER learns flamethrower. I’ve seen some weird and idiotic bullshit in my time on the ‘net, but this sort of scaling is rare to find, but is definitely absurd.
This effect can also apply to non-video games as well; Just because Son Goku can defeat Tien Shinhan, does NOT mean that Goku can perform the Tri-Beam like Tien can. And before you point to Dragonball Heroes, I would like to point out that that is the same game that gave Broly LSSJ4, Let Freeza use the Kamehameha wave, and gave us SSJ 4 Gotenks.
3: The N3L, or Newton’s Third Law formula is a rather reliable method, but not the most solid method of scaling power. Stating that because a character can endure a powerful blast, they must be capable of dealing a similar blow. This is a flawed method due to the ‘tanks’ of video game characters. The ‘Glass Cannons’ of video games puts a dent in the opposite, but is the most reasonable of the two.
Claiming that because Benjamin Tennyson’s Cannonbolt form can withstand atmospheric reentry (Which, keep in mind, is about 40,000 MPH), does NOT mean that form can deal a similar blow on his own. He would need to actually get into a space station, drop from there, and be lucky or skilled enough to hit his intended target.
One of Ben’s other forms, Ball Weevil, can dish out explosions capable of demolishing concrete walls, but he can’t tank his own explosions, and can’t take a whole lot of damage before being KO-d. You need at least 150 pounds of force to break a 2x8x16’ stone slab, and considering that stone walls are much thicker than that, it’s likely that it takes significantly more to break the wall.
4: The Familiar Foe Application, or FFA formula is by far, the most solid of all power scaling techniques. Claiming that “since Batman can defeat The Flash, so he can beat Quicksilver”, is actually a reasonable thing to claim, as both Quicksilver and Flash share the same powerset, with the only difference being the origin of obtaining the powers.
This is similar as to how Spider-Man beat the Juggernaut, he applied the knowledge of battling the Rhino to Juggernaut, and changed tactics because of the differences in how they obtained their abilities.
HOWEVER! Claiming that because Batman can defeat Superman, doesn’t mean he can defeat the likes of Shazam, Miss Marvel (From Marvel), Son Goku, or Saitama (From One Punch Man). That would be ridiculous, as one; Batman beating Superman was non-canon, written by a writer who dislikes Superman, Batman had help, and did not actually defeat Supes. Two; Batman keeps on his hand, at all times, Superman’s specific weakness of rare alien radiation that makes Superman recoil at best, and bring him to his knees at worse (Depending on your point of view of course). And Three; Batman has stated that the only reason he can beat Superman, is because Superman is, at his core, a nice guy, and will actively try to NOT let Batman get hurt (World of Cardboard Speech anyone?) or even his own foes.
To be honest, this is really the only form of power scaling that I can see being logical at its worst.
5: Win-Loss records are something that usually occurs in fighting games, Black Orchid’s (Killer Instinct) win-loss record is superior to that of Ivy’s (Soul Calibur). As Orchid’s record includes several other fighters, while Ivy has only one non-rematch win under her belt.
Sonya Blade from Mortal Kombat defeated Kitana and Jade in MK9. Kitana also lost to Liu Kang, (And given that Liu Kang wasn’t even using lethal force story-wise) it’s safe to say that she could be beaten by fighters that have similar training to either of the aforementioned kombatants. The Edenian princess somehow beat Smoke, Johnny Cage, Jade, Mileena, and Shang Tsung, but given that both Cage and Smoke didn’t have “Kill Kitana” on their to-do list, Jade was under orders to capture her (Not kill, capture), Mileena was pretty much JUST born, and that Shang Tsung doesn’t have the best track record when it comes to fighting someone directly, the only wins she can actually justify is Smoke and Cage (As they were acting in self-defense).
Let’s take a much more… Pathetic character, shall we? Dan Hibiki. His only win (If you can even call it that) came out of sheer pity. His opponent felt that he was SO pathetic, that defeating him wouldn’t do anything. Taking one from the MK side of things, Mileena got her ass kicked by her sister, Stryker, Jade, Raiden, Kotal Kahn, and D’Vorah. I don’t see her winning a tournament anytime soon.
Not necessarily power scaling per se, but it is a good way of measuring who is a better fighter. A good example is that Shang Tsung has no wins under his belt, as he usually lets other fighters do the fighting for him. Contrast Akuma, who has beaten other fighters like M Bison, Gouken, and others.
Power Scaling can’t be used as a viable method of measuring power. Claiming that because Character A is beaten by Character B, in which character B is a planet buster, doesn’t mean that Character A is also a planet buster. This is the equivalent of claiming that Luke Skywalker in an X-Wing is a planet buster because it destroyed the Death Star, which is shown to be a planet buster. Another example is, going back to the Batman vs Superman comparison, Batman can bench press the planet because he defeated Superman, who did the same feat (And I acknowledge the absurdity of the claim, just bear with me here.). The third and final example is that because Johnny Cage defeated Shinnok (And I would like to point out that Shinnok is in fact, dangerous enough that the elder gods had to imprison him inside an amulet because he could have destroyed them if given the chance, which makes Shinnok a GOD BUSTER), he is also able to pull off the same amount of destruction that Shinnok can.
Additionally, claiming that character A has a distinct advantage over B, where A shrugged off a grenade point blank due to armor they usually wear, when B got winded by doing the same thing WITHOUT armor, is a stupid reason to say that B should’ve beaten A. That’s the equivalent of claiming that ‘Since Sonic has super speed, and Mario doesn’t, then Mario should’ve beaten Sonic’ IT simply doesn't make sense. Just because A has the advantage but was hurt by some kind of force, while B doesn't and shrugged off the same force also doesn't automatically equate to B being superior.
Now, most of the above is a result of fighting styles, utilizing weaknesses, level of effort, and actual strategy, not actual power, but I’ve seen comments claiming that Batman should beat Spider-Man because he beat Captain America when Cap beat Spidey in the comics.
Additionally, Having more power DOES NOT mean automatic victory. As a quick example, Juggernaugt got defeated by Spider-Man. Need another example? - Batman defeated Bane, Ash's Pikachu defeated Brock's Onix, and Sonya Blade took down Quan Chi. As for an example from Death Battle, Leonardo defeated Zits, Starscream fell to Rainbow Dash, Kirby disintigrated Buu, Guts claimed victory over Nightmare, and Link won over Cloud.
Additionally, utilizing gameplay feats is a rather difficult thing to utilize, because the actual story is separate from it.
One example is that in LEGO: Marvel Superheroes, at the end of the submarine mission, Thor claims that he cannot call down any lightning in the vehicle, you are actually required to call upon lightning to progress through the stage.
Another gameplay feat that gets taken out of context is that claiming that Cloud from Final Fantasy is a solar system buster because he survived being hit by Sephiroth’s supernova. Totally reasonable, except that Cloud can fall to bullets from regular enemies, or a simple attack from any non-Sephiroth attacks. That’s a pretty big step to go. Yeah, you use one extreme of gameplay feats, you also have to use the other extreme.
Now, if the gameplay matches the lore, it’s a more viable source than just using gameplay feats on their own. An example of gameplay and story matching up is that Dan Hibiki struggling to throw a man over his shoulder is applicable to his story-wise strength.
In short: Power Scaling is an unreliable method of measuring power, and trying to use it as fact is bullshit. I acknowledge that Death Battle has used it before, like in Ivy vs Orchid, Godzilla vs Gamera, and Iron Man vs Lex Luthor. However, the last two were more or less feats, rather than actual stats. It’s a totally reasonable and useful method to utilize in math, but in a VS debate, it’s a shaky method at best, and total bullshit at worst; and this being the internet, I’m going to go with the worst. Meaning that Power Scaliing is pretty much Bullshit.
Then again, I've only seen Power Scaling at its worst, so maybe I'm not that well-qualified for something like this...
1 year agoDudebladeX
Well, after sifting through a crapton of flamewars, I decided that I should try something a little less... Negative.
Rules: It HAS to be a sword. A shield may accompany it, but the primary function must be a sword.
10. The energy sword (Halo)
Arguably the only sword to ever come out of a FPS that’s actually good, this sword is only this low on the list because of Master Chief’s inexperience with the thing. If the guy were to master how to block with the thing, then it would be higher on the list. On the brighter side of things, Roosterteeth managed to make it really awesome in their machinima series, Red vs Blue.
9. Rose Quartz’ Sword. (Steven Universe)
Sentiment is a major factor on this list, and when you first see this sword in action, you quickly become interested and attached. Seeing it blow up what can be assumed to be a sentry in its first showing, it becomes the titular character’s love interest’s weapon of choice and serves as a nice sentiment of their bond.
8. Honedge line. (Pokémon)
What Sword is also alive? This one! The ghost-steel typing already gives it immunity to poison, normal, and fighting type attacks. Being one of the few ‘Mons that can learn the powerful move Sacred Sword, it’s a beast. Keep in mind that the move Sacred Sword ignores enemy stat changes, like increases in defense and evasion, having a base accuracy of 100, and a base power of 90, it’s going to hurt. A lot.
7. Trunks/Tapion’s Sword. (Dragonball)
This is the sword that Future Trunks used in the Cell saga in DBZ. Granted to Trunks after the events in Wrath of the Dragon, this sword has sentiment. It’s FT’s weapon of choice, and was instrumental in his beating of Freeza once he showed up. Bummer that it got destroyed by the Androids later on though...
6. Buster Sword. (Final Fantasy)
When you think of big swords, this one comes to everyone’s mind. Being Cloud’s iconic weapon of choice after inheriting it from his dead buddy Zack, he uses it to protect the planet of Gaia, the planet’s inhabitants, and his friends. ESPECIALLY his friends. The fact that you can equip it with the game-changing materia gives it an extra edge over most foes, and that alone makes this sword awesome. Downside is that it’s single-edge, and it’s only his iconic sword, but not his best.
5. Soul Calibur. (Soul Calibur)
This sword was used to combat the vile Nightmare, who possesses the evil blade known as Soul Edge. And I’m not kidding, Soul Edge is indeed evil, it houses a demon! Soul Edge would be devastating to the world had it not been for the more pure sword, Soul Calibur. The fun part of this sword, is that it was specifically designed to combat Soul Edge, as it is a shard of the aforementioned blade. Shame that if Inferno gets his hands on it, he can amp up Soul Edge… Still a cool sword though.
4. Dragonslayer. (Berserk)
Before you start quoting the Manga, and claim that it’s ‘more like a heap of raw iron’, It’s still a sword. Guts has weilded plenty of greatswords in the past, but this is his most iconic, and deadly. It has decimated hordes of demons, acted a solid means of defense against them, and can even harm ghosts! That part alone, makes it awesome.
3. Crocea Mors. (RWBY)
You’d think that in a world where scythes become snipers, pistols become katanas, gauntlets become shotguns, and a freaking thermos can be used as a flamethrower, a simple sword that comes with a shield that acts as a sheath for the blade would be useless. Not in this case. This sword has taken down ursas, can slice through several objects, and the shield is a handy means of defense. Plus, the fact that it doesn’t double as a gun, means you save money on bullet rounds.
2. Lightsaber (Star Wars)
It’s a sword. That is also a laser. Pretty much everyone wants one. This sci-fi blade is one of, if not the most awesome swords ever seen. The fact that it cuts just about everything is icing on the cake. It’s also a good means of defense, being able to reflect laser blasts, yes, I said ‘reflect’, not ‘deflect’; enough skill, and you can make the blast return to sender. You have to be a Jedi or Sith lord to wield one though, and that’s a hassle that I personally don’t want to have to deal with. Just give the sword and point me in the direction of the enemy!
1. Master Sword (Legend of Zelda)
The kingdom of Hyrule is in jeopardy. The vile Ganondorf has conquered the entire land and has forced princess Zelda into hiding, and you’ve been absent for about seven years. This blade is the only hope of restoring peace to the land. Arguably the very first sword gamers found themselves remembering the most, the Master Sword is a piece of work. It has accompanied Link on many of his adventures, and is explicitly said to repel evil. Soul Calibur may have been made to fight evil, but it’s not designed to repel it. The Buster Sword may be used as a force for good, but it’s not built to destroy evil. Dragonslayer may be used to combat demons, but it’s still not built to repel evil. Honedge, the Energy Sword, and the Lightsabers might be awesome swords, but it’s really up to the user as to whether or not it’ll be used for good or evil. Rose’s Sword might have been a symbol of hope, but it’s still not built to destroy evil. Crocea Mors might be wielded by a good guy, but it’s still not built to destroy evil. The power of the Master Sword can only be wielded by a hero, and that’s what makes it awesome. Soul Calibur can be turned into an evil force if Inferno were to get his hands on it, but if Ganondorf were to even touch the Master Sword, he would be hurt.
If you disagree with this list, place your top ten in the comment section, and if you flame with some BS like "This sword did (Insert feat here)! It should've been up there instead of the crappy sword at number (Insert prefered number here)!", I will ignore it.
To be honest, I'm kinda just here to hang around. I guess I'll just gonna debunk accusations and misconceptions about some things... Like Death Battle. Because I have to deal with a lot of shit... Well, that and the fact that I have nothing really better to do around here.
If you wanna know, I place my predictions... Or rather reaction in my mass crossover. Well, I have some stuff to do, so peace out. Hopefully, I can do more positive stuff later.
I do character analyses these days, as well as my own top ten lists.
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